trump’s legal troubles keep getting worse. transcript: 05/03/2018. all in with chris hayes
Thank you for being with us.
Chris Hayes\'s \"everything is ready\" starts now. (
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Chris Hayes, MSNBC host: all in tonight.
US President Donald Trump: Michael Cohen is a very talented lawyer.
The president\'s legal problems are growing exponentially.
The White House rushed to explain Rudy Giuliani\'s admission to Daniels.
Unidentified men: they go through a law firm?
Rudy Giuliani, Donald Trump\'s lawyer: the president repaid the money through a law.
Hayes: The latest excuse for Trump world to fire James Comey tonight is Trump\'s informal legal adviser, Victoria Tosin, and the tortured relationship between Trump\'s White House and the truth.
Unidentified male: how can the American people trust or believe what is said here or what the president has said?
Hayes: everything is starting now.
White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders: We provided the best information of the time. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Hayes: Good evening. This is Chris Hayes.
Tonight, the president somehow finds himself in a deeper legal crisis than he did 24 hours ago.
Rudy Giuliani, the president\'s attorney in Miller\'s investigation, you may have heard of him, and he seems to have suddenly revealed that his client has been lying about paying stomi Daniels, and try to put the president in further legal danger.
We found federal investigators monitoring the president\'s phone records.
Time attorney Michael Cohen and special counsel have just requested 35 blank subpoenas to force Paul Manafort, the former presidential campaign chairman, to testify on trial this summer.
Even for a government defined by chaos and a president who has become the subject of criminal investigation, the situation is deteriorating.
The president\'s own White House, his lawyer-his external lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, has just had a series of live interviews on state television and some print media, in addition, he revealed in the letter, the president has been lying about the role he plays in the cover fee paid to stomi Daniels, and everyone around him is involved in the cover-up. (
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Unidentified woman: Do you know the $130,000 paid to stomi Daniels? TRUMP: No.
Unidentified Woman: So, if there is no truth to her allegations, why would Michael Cohen succeed?
You have to ask Michael Cohen.
Michael is my lawyer.
You have to ask Michael.
Woman: Do you know where he got the money from?
No, I don\'t know.
SANDERS: I have already talked to the president about this issue.
The president is not aware of any payments.
Unidentified male: The president does not know the agreement.
At least Michael Cohen never told him about the deal.
I can tell you. (END VIDEO CLIP)HAYES: OK.
I think we have been listening for months.
The president did not know.
Michael Cohen is only out of his inner goodness because he loves Donald Trump just to pay $130,000 for a woman who has nothing to do with the president. OK, got that?
Giuliani has now admitted that, contrary to all these claims, the president of the United States, well, guess what, personally repaid the $130,000 that Michael Cohen paid to stomi Daniels(END VIDEO CLIP)
Giuliani: this money is not campaign money.
Sorry, now you don\'t know, I give you a fact.
This is not campaign money.
No campaign finance violations.
Unidentified men: So they go through a law firm?
Giuliani: The president repaid the money through a law firm.
Oh, I don\'t know-he does? GIULIANI: Yes. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Hayes: Oh, I don\'t know. No one did.
I mean, that\'s what Rudy Giuliani and the president did, and that\'s what Michael Cohen did.
Giuliani claimed that due to the structure of the payments made to Cohen at that time, the president had only known a few weeks ago that he had paid those payments.
But even if it is true, it still leaves the president facing some potential campaign finance and bank irregularities.
Giuliani tried to quote the same defense that John Edwards successfully used in his campaign finance trial, and we should say that the money has nothing to do with his political campaign. (
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Giuliani: this is for personal reasons.
This is-the president has not personally been hurt by politics, individuals, and the first lady because of some false charges, and one false charge, six.
I think he wants to help the family. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Help his family.
Giuliani detonated the whole argument in a few minutes, noting that on the surface it seemed obvious that the Stormy Daniels had paid off in the days leading up to the presidential election to prevent the scandal. (
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Giuliani: imagine if this was announced in the last debate with Hillary Clinton in October 15, 2016.
Unidentified male: So they gave you the money in order to make it disappear.
Giuliani: Cohen didn\'t even ask.
Cohen made it disappear. He did his job. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Hayes: More on the president\'s growing legal issues, now with me, MSNBC national security analyst, former FBI agent Clint Watts and former US assistant Daniel W ·S.
A lawyer in the Southern District of New York, investigating Michael Cohen\'s office, the office that Rudy Giuliani once ran.
What are the legal consequences of Giuliani\'s recognition now?
Daniel Goldman, former American assistantS.
Lawyers for the Southern District of New York: Well, the legal liability for potential campaign finance violations now is a little different from what we think Michael Cohen paid off stomi Daniels\'s campaign contributions 11 days before the election, now it\'s Donald Trump\'s turn and he\'s allowed to give as much money as possible to his campaign, but he has to disclose what he\'s given.
So Giuliani said I know that, and I paid him back, and he was referring to Trump, which suggests that Donald Trump may be running soon, or in violation of campaign funding.
What do you think, Clint?
Clint watts, national security analyst at MSNBC: It\'s hard to see Giuliani\'s conversation.
I mean, the more he swings, the more you know something is wrong.
So-Hayes: Well, I have to say, as a New Yorker and also as an Italian --
I\'m a little angry, American.
Watts: the intensity increases when the story gets crazy.
So whether you know it or not, the way he describes it, basically, is that the president knows about it, and in his own words, he\'s sending money, and that\'s a term, you don\'t usually want to use it to talk about what the president is doing, because it says you\'re trying to send money secretly to a colleague, which is basically about what you\'re doing and why you\'re doing it
If it\'s not that important, if Cohen doesn\'t need to do that, why are you doing it just a few days before the election, if it happened years ago?
This comes down to intent.
Goldman Sachs: The best thing is that if you put some way in a crazy place, that\'s the argument.
Michael Cohen paid the money before the election, but he knew President Trump would take it back, so it\'s not a campaign funding donation.
President Trump did not pay back until after the election, so he did not have to disclose.
Well, somehow, in the whole entanglement, maybe you have an argument that there is no violation of campaign finance, but that\'s not what they\'re saying at all, that\'s not what Giuliani said in the last 24 hours.
They should have hired you.
In fact, this is a better legal debate on behalf of the president, just as everyone has enough knowledge to not violate the law.
That\'s what you\'re talking about.
Goldman Sachs: It\'s the best-I think it\'s the best argument I can think of that they can claim.
There are holes in it, but-Hayes: but, for me, the broader things are as sketchy as they are now-Rudy Giuliani basically says, why are you all emphasizing this and this has been happening all the time? Take a listen. (
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GIULIANI: I think it was cheap when Cohen said my God when he heard about $130,000.
They are cheap.
Let me register and log things off.
Unidentified male: in other words, let it go, not fight the charge-Giuliani: Don\'t you think a lot of these people will pay the money when they can?
I mean, on behalf of me, I can\'t disclose that the client I represent paid a lot more than that.
Unidentified woman: will this happen as you said on Twitter-Giuliani: If you are rich, you are the target. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Hayes: It seems to me that we know-we know that the Southern District of New York is looking at Michael Cohen, who was searched and warrant.
According to today\'s report, there is a pen register for his call record.
It looks like there may be more there.
Watts: Yes, there is one thing if they are already doing it-in terms of the speed of the investigation, I don\'t think simply referring Rod Rosenstein to the Southern District of New York would trigger such a swift response.
Looking at this from the outside, it seems that they are already conducting some kind of investigation case, whatever you have, white collar.
This gives them extra meat and they really need to go and do more investigation steps like show up at his door and actually do a warrant.
It seems like a bunch of things.
It\'s not just the first thing that pops up.
Goldman Sachs: The focus of the market has been on Stormy payments and campaign financial irregularities.
But if you look at the South District prosecutor\'s file, they stress to the judge that most of their investigations and most of the correspondence they know by email
The Mail search warrant is related to Cohen\'s commercial transaction, which is completely different from the campaign\'s financial violations.
So, as people who work there, it\'s impossible for them to do what you know, and, based on campaign financial charges, do a sequential search of family, office, and hotel rooms.
Hayes: Finally, I \'d like to hear your reaction to what Rudy Giuliani said about the agent\'s raid and what he called the raid. Take a listen. (
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Giuliani: the only possible violation is a violation of campaign finance, which, by the way, usually results in a fine, not that this big storm soldier comes in and destroys his apartment and his office.
Yes, can you believe this is Rudy Giuliani\'s game on 9/11? That\'s the guy who called the New York Police Department and the FBI so that we can fight terrorism, and now it\'s about the Stormtroopers, and it\'s also Rudy Giuliani, which is Trump Ville, New York\'s about to enter election day.
Or he said he was really trying to destroy the American institutions, he set a wedge between the local and federal governments, saw the route that used to be a legend, and really followed the president to destroy the United States, it\'s just a sad state. S. institutions.
Hayes: Clint Watts and Daniel Goldman, thank you both for joining.
I learned a lot.
Thank you. Goldman Sachs.
Hayes: more about what\'s next to the president and his legal issues, Ted Lieu, a Democratic congressman from California, a member of the House Judiciary Committee.
Your colleague, Congressman, seems to be stepping up an attempt to cut all of this off on the pass.
Where are the things now? REP. CHRIS LIEU (D-CA)
The House Judiciary Committee I find it despicable that some colleagues in my family are trying to impeach Rod Rosenstein, and I think it is absolutely right that he says the Justice Department will not be blackmailed.
Then I was watching your interesting conversation.
I think it is clear that the president used Michael Cohen as a straw donor to cover up the real source of payments. That`s a flat-
It\'s a felony because it\'s over $25,000.
I think that\'s enough for FBI agents to show up at your doorstep.
Hayes: Do you think this is all?
Do you think this is at the heart of a serious campaign financial violation?
I think this is one aspect.
I wouldn\'t be surprised that Michael Cohen had a business problem.
It is important that this is a separate investigation from Robert Miller. It`s a U. S.
Southern District law firm, New York.
Prosecutors and FBI agents will do their job.
With Rudy Giuliani\'s staggering admission last night that the president paid Cohen back, they now want to talk to the president.
So now there are two groups of investigators who want to talk to the president of the United States.
Hayes: we now know what the president means by lying about it?
Well, you know, Chris, Today is Thursday, which means we found the president lying.
But it\'s such an amazing lie.
This is the fourth iteration of the story.
The first lie is oh, stomi Daniels is fake news, and then just fine, it\'s not fake, but there\'s no money to change hands.
Then Michael Cohen made the money and was not reimbursed and now, we know Trump gave him the reimbursement.
So more and more lies show that they are really very, very afraid of what this story will do, and now it is completely exaggerated in front of the American public.
Based on it, that\'s right, it\'s really about Donald Trump having an affair with a porn star trying to cover it up, but he\'s doing that in violation of campaign finance law.
Hayes: Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, who retired from Pennsylvania, said a hearing should be held on the matter.
If Obama did, he said, we would \"wave our bloody shirts \".
\"If members and most people want to play a role, what would Congress look like to oversee your committee?
We will have a hearing when we come back from rest next week.
I have to say that I am very upset when Paul Ryan threatened to say, hey, if the Democrats take back the House, we will be called. Well, yes.
We will fulfill our responsibility to carry out inspections and balance in the administration and we will issue subpoenas to ensure that we have proper supervision over the administration and all bad things that happen.
Hayes: Do you think-are you confident, except for the Democratic majority?
Only more Republicans have retired because I have seen a lot of courage from retired Republicans.
OK, member Ted Lieu. thank you. Alternative: Thank you.
Hayes: next, what will the president do with the increasing legal pressure?
Victoria Toensing, who is one of the president\'s informal legal advisers, joined me in two minutes to talk about an update on the Miller investigation.
I think it will be very interesting.
Don\'t go anywhere. (
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Giuliani: he fired Comey because Comey would not say he was not the target of the investigation.
He has the right to do so.
Hillary Clinton understood that and she-he couldn\'t understand that, so he fired him and he said I got rid of this guy. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Hayes: Donald Trump\'s latest rationale for firing former FBI Director James Comey.
Now join me to discuss the update on the Trump investigation, former federal prosecutor Victoria tuensin, former presidential counsel, before the conflict prevented her from doing so, he will officially join Trump\'s legal team and it is a pleasure to have you on the show.
I really appreciate it.
Former federal prosecutor Victoria tuensin: Thank you, Chris.
I just wanted to clarify that I did not advise the president on this special adviser matter, so the only way he heard I was going to tell you is if he was listened, I believe he is.
Well, a boy can dream.
Let me start with what Rudy Giuliani said there.
If the president has fired the FBI director for refusing to publicly declare him innocent in the investigation, some people think it is ostensibly an obstacle to justice.
TOENSING: I don\'t know who these people will be, but I don\'t think they\'re in law school.
Article 2 states that the president has unrestricted powers to hire and dismiss persons.
Don\'t forget that you know that civil service protection is not involved here, but he can hire and fire all those people in these administrative departments.
I mean, of course, Comey and Kelly, because of the second article.
But how can the dismissal of Comey hinder judicial justice?
As the dismissal and investigation continued, there were 15,000 FBI agents there.
So, for God\'s sake, what is this holding back?
Hayes: but it seems to me that I \'ve heard this argument before, and Alan deshovitz made a version, Joseph dignova, your husband made a basically exciting version: liberals and conservatives, Chris.
Hayes: but it\'s impossible to get in the way of justice when the president is exercising his full article-no, no, no
No, let me finish this sentence. TOENSING: OK.
Hayes: under Article 2, it is not possible for the president to exercise his legitimate constitutional power to hinder justice by doing so, is it correct?
Anything he does there, he has unfettered power to hire and fire, and he cannot get in the way of justice.
TOENSING: That\'s right.
Hayes: but it seems to prove too much.
Like, if the FBI and the Justice Department were investigating Robert Mendez in New Jersey, President Obama came in, right?
He said, look, I need a senator\'s vote, and he fired the Senator of the United States. S.
Newark\'s lawyer is clearly in the way of justice because he wants him to stop pursuing Robert Mendez, even if he has the power to do so.
No, he\'s not. He can fire U. S.
Do you think that\'s okay?
I\'m just-I\'m just telling you what the law is.
Hayes: No, I know your wife is a lawyer.
Maybe she can tell you what the law is.
Hayes: No, but here\'s-TOENSING: OK, Chris, let\'s talk about your argument.
Let\'s go together.
This is an obstruction of justice, so it may be a crime. HAYES: Right.
TOENSING: Now, Rod Rosenstein discussed with the president the basis for the dismissal of Comey.
Rod Rosenstein wrote a stern memo entitled \"restoring credibility to the FBI\" and gave it to the president-three I think --
The reason why Comey should be fired.
So, under your theory with Mueller, Rod Rosenstein thinks this could be a hindrance-Hayes: Yes.
TOENSING:-according to my theory, it\'s just a witness at best, but it\'s a common one.
The conspirators under your theory
Hayes: although he gave-TOENSING: Now, Miller reports to Rod Rosenstein that this is a conflict.
Hayes: but I just want to make it clear.
Rosenstein\'s memo, right, because the prank here is so strange.
TOENSING: possible memos, right, possible memos.
Hayes: As we have learned from the president and Rudy Giuliani-tuensin, the May memorandum is a clear and obvious pre-text: No, no.
Chris, you have to understand how all of us are shocked, all of us are part of the Justice Department and know how Comey replaced the role of a lawyer.
He may have a degree in law, but he is the director of the FBI.
We were shocked.
You just need to know.
Hayes: wait, because he was so mean to Hillary Clinton that he was shocked by his efforts?
Well, yes, that\'s another reason.
He replaced the role of the attorney general and then revealed the information found in the investigation.
You should never do that.
Hayes: I look at the president-I look at the president and the Republican Party, lawyers and not lawyers, and people in all circles have been quoting James Comey at that event.
No one said he should not release derogatory information.
That\'s what I did.
Yes, Chris, I said it again today.
Hayes: Well, in fact, I commend you for your consistency because I think-I agree with that.
This is a location for the show.
But this is my point, I think.
Is it possible for a president with corrupt intentions to use his constitutional authority to dismiss someone pursuing a judicial barrier, or is it not-do you not recognize that it is conceptually possible?
TOENSING: you can\'t-no, you can\'t-you can\'t delve into his intentions on things where he has unconstrained authority.
Let me give another example.
But by the way, before we go there, Chris, can you talk about the issue of Rod Rosenstein overseeing a caseconspirator?
I think this is a real issue, a legal issue.
I was a lawyer before I became a Republican.
I didn\'t go to law school to be a Republican.
Hayes: All I know-all I know, what we know from the report, right, he has registered with the Department of Justice\'s ethics whether he should re-use and follow the advice.
Did they recommend it wrong?
I don\'t know what\'s in the black box, Rod Rosenstein\'s edit memo, so I don\'t have a stand on it, do I?
Like Rod Rosenstein or Rod Rosenstein, what I want to say is, fundamentally, whether the president is above the law.
I want to give you another hypo here. Can we do this?
I\'ll give you one more.
TOENSING: OK, I can give you an example of an unconstrained authority. May I do that? HAYES: Yes. OK. TOENSING: OK.
Bill Clinton got $450,000 from Mark Rich\'s predecessor.
Her wife and Hillary earned $100,000 in the Senate campaign, and Bill Clinton pardoned Mark Ritchie.
Do you know who filed a lawsuit against Bill Clinton? Do you know? James Comey.
I know this case well because we represent someone in this matter.
Guess what, he had to close the case because Bill Clinton even personally received more than half a million dollars in pardon and they couldn\'t look into the president\'s intentions.
I mean all these questions that Miller raised were inappropriate because they were looking into his intentions in the second authoritative article.
Hayes: you will-of course, you admit that the president can commit a crime, right?
Yes, of course.
Hayes: I mean obstacles, right?
So if he does something like his conspiracy to violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, or he-you know-jokes: if he destroys the file, or if he tells someone to lie,
Yes, all these things.
You think impeachment is the only solution, right?
TOENSING: This is because the Justice Department has a long-term
OLC, the Office of the legal counsel, has the opinion that the president cannot be convicted-you know, for years neither side can be prosecuted.
Hayes: Do you understand why people feel sad about the credibility of the president\'s denial?
TOENSING: that\'s not-what do you mean, deny what?
He said that he did not pay off the debt owed by stomi Daniels.
TOENSING: I said I wouldn\'t talk about storm Daniels on your show, so I don\'t like it coming up.
Hayes: I don\'t care about the storm Daniels.
I don\'t-listen-sing: I don\'t object-like the media, I don\'t object to things I don\'t know.
Hayes: No, that\'s right.
I don\'t want to-I don\'t want to talk about stomi Daniels, my only idea has nothing to do with this case and we can talk about what he had for breakfast.
What I want to say is that there is a material false statement from the White House.
The White House has a lot of false statements.
Do you understand why people doubt how we manage ourselves?
TOENSING: I\'m talking about the case and the special counsel, and I said that one day the president said it doesn\'t matter that he fired Comey because he wouldn\'t make a public appearance saying he wasn\'t the target, or the next day he said it was because I was mad at him and didn\'t like the chin of his wound.
It can be ten reasons, it can be no reason.
It\'s just as unconstrained as Bill Clinton\'s pardon was when he won half a million dollars.
Hayes: If he says, if he comes out directly and says, look, I let him fire Michael Flynn.
He didn\'t, so I fired him.
You think it\'s okay even if he comes out and says it.
Yes, he can do it for any reason.
You may not like our constitution, but this is the case.
Now, if he goes to the witness and says I want you to lie to Michael Flynn and drop him off, it\'s a crime.
Hayes: The last question.
If the right to pardon: Is this the only one? Only one more?
Hayes: Well, you come back.
I like to do this.
There are no feathers in the right to pardon, right?
If you know about the president, bagman going to intimidate witnesses, he\'s going to get caught, and the president\'s going to pardon him afterwards, okay?
Yes, he can forgive me.
Yes, the power to be completely unrestricted.
Hayes: these are the two big powers.
He can fire anyone he wants, he can forgive anyone he wants, and none of these things in your heart will get in the way of justice?
TOENSING: No, not just in my mind, in the minds of many legal scholars on the left and right.
Yes, although-yes, it\'s not consistent.
I just want to make it clear.
Yes-TOENSING: Well, some people don\'t know the law, they don\'t know the law very well.
People always say this, even in (INAUDIBLE)decisions.
Thank you for being with me.
I want you back if you come back. TOENSING: OK.
Hayes: OK. thank you.
Next, 35 blank subpoenas requested by Robert Miller.
After that, what does this mean for the Manafort investigation. (
Hayes: screening lawyer Lisa green here, author of your case, Maya Willie, former American lawyerS.
Assistant lawyer, New School professor, Harry Siegel, senior editor of The Daily Beast.
So the position of Victoria Toensing is-a group of people defending the position of the President, what do you think about that?
Lisa Green, lawyer: Well, I\'ll take issue and I think you\'re doing a good job of fighting back.
This is a more subtle topic.
Hayes: It\'s definitely not something everyone knows, no matter what you think.
The idea is this, oh, this is on and off.
The president does whatever he wants.
No, that\'s not true.
What the president wants to do is do whatever it is, but I think what we see in her argument is that when his new lawyer brings a lawsuit and starts upholding administrative privileges, we will begin to hear the pressure of greater argument.
A more confident, defensive character says you can\'t touch this.
Maya Willie, senior vice president of social justice at the new school: you can\'t touch it.
Willie: that\'s where you have to show that you\'re holding back justice. he basically thinks there\'s a corrupt intent, the president is above the law, because he can fire a person with corrupt intentions because it\'s not a corrupt intention if he fired Comey for other reasons.
Hayes: of course.
Reasons, policy disputes, etc.
Willie: but suggesting that the president of the United States is to some extent protected from any crime with corrupt intentions, as part of the protection of himself, judging from the investigation of violations of other criminal laws, the president of the United States is basically not bound by American law.
Hayes: We do feel that we are fighting-we are moving towards another battle with Nixon\'s precedent to discuss whether we are fundamentally looking at the president as legally bound.
Siegel: We may just be in the past, just like we don\'t know if it\'s a legal struggle or just a political one. So, my 6-year-
Old, you know, I didn\'t do anything wrong, you can\'t punish me.
This is not the point, haha.
You\'re in trouble now.
In fact, the argument here is that you can\'t judge the president\'s intention, in any case, the president\'s intention is good, and in any case, we won\'t stop.
Hayes: I mean, we should say the same thing, just like we don\'t know all the facts that are right.
Like, when all the facts came out, but interestingly, she admitted that even if he fired Comey because of Flynn, even if he said to him, let my friend go, stop investigating my friend, he didn\'t, and he fired him for that if he admitted to it.
He can forgive Flynn.
The thing is, he can forgive Flynn, so what he really wants to do is protect himself from investigation.
He had everything-he could have used his administrative privileges to protect Flynn, saying that if there was an investigation, then there was an indictment, and then there was an actual prosecution, and Cohen didn\'t-then he could have forgiven him.
Then you will suffer-I mean, I think you will still suffer some political consequences because of forgiveness. HAYES: Right.
Green: So this is a strange end.
Hayes: Well, one more thing.
I think this has laid the foundation for escalating aggression, right.
Maybe at some point, I\'ll be against Rosenstein.
You can already see that they have the knives ready for him.
Maybe forgive others-you know, give Michael Cohen a full pardon.
All of this seems possible.
Rudy Giuliani, Harry-I know you \'ve been covering for a while-seems to be at the center of all this.
I don\'t know what he\'s doing.
Siegel: he doesn\'t care. I`m serious.
Rudy Giuliani is not so smart or stupid.
He is in the middle of his third divorce.
He was hanging out alone at the big Nevada Club. ph)
In the building of Jared Kushner, the cigar smoker did not play any role in his government.
We\'re all on the phone now-we\'re all talking about him and he\'s happy.
The last time he saw him, he was working with former AG Mike mukasi to defend this guy Zarab (ph)
Who broke Iran\'s sanctions?
Rudy Giuliani tried to sell justice and reached an agreement on his behalf.
This is probably why Zarab (ph)
Hayes: he didn\'t perform, he started working together, but he didn\'t succeed.
Yes, yes. So, here he is.
Suddenly, people began to care about him again.
He caught everyone\'s attention.
If you look at Fox\'s interview
Hayes: very trumpeter. Oh, big-time.
He has been talking about us and you can see the joy from his face.
It\'s like he\'s been re-shaped, and now he has to say to his friends all the things he says about the FBI full of storm soldiers, bosses, not the rankings and documents leaked to him, and by the way, we\'re still waiting for the IG report.
Green: Yes, just like Rudy gets extra credits at this studio 54 Law School. What do I mean?
He said something outrageous to Trump that they were a little casual and disgusted with women, which drew attention.
But it\'s not a joke.
We\'re not at the Disco.
It\'s over after 80.
Here, we are looking at someone who seems to be inconsistent with what we just talked about a few seconds ago, and it is a disciplined approach.
We heard from Victoria that by attacking the basis of the prosecutor\'s investigation, it did put pressure on them.
It works with the base. HAYES: Right.
It works with the base.
I think, you know, what Giuliani definitely scored last night, and although all of us can separate it from a legal and analytical perspective, nothing happens here.
Hayes: I have to say, though, that the part that was stripped back is like a rough factor I \'ve been saying here.
What are these people-here\'s where Giuliani talks about the deal, and he\'s just made a little profit for Michael Cohen. Take a listen. (
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Giuliani: Everyone was nervous about it from the beginning. I wasn`t.
I know how much Donald Trump has invested in that campaign.
I said $130,000?
He\'s going to make a few checks for $130,000.
When Cohen didn\'t work for the President, I heard he hired $35,000, and I said that\'s how he paid it back, with a little profit and a little profit on paying taxes for Michael. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Hayes: You know, Michael has to get his mouth wet too.
Like that. -No, seriously.
Green: Michael has been demoted.
Last time on this show, we talked about how he did only a small amount of work for the president, and now Rudy says $35,000 is basically not working, I think this is a big deal for Michael Cohen.
SIEGEL: It looks like the incidentals here are over $300,000 in addition to the return.
Look, when Rudy Giuliani ran for president in 2008 and Pat Robertson supported him, you know he was pro
Who used to support abortion.
Gay marriage, dressing up, living with gay people in the middle of the second divorce.
He is the choice of the evangelical community, and this is the moment when all bets are canceled, and it is no longer any excuse about principles, but about power.
We are with Trump and, to some extent, his return is appropriate.
Hayes: all we got from the report is that these people are as thick as the thief Trump and Giuliani, right.
You heard him say no one could break in.
They have a connection from generation to generation, and I think it\'s an expression.
Lisa Green, Maya Willie, Harry Siegel, thank you all.
Next, how to deal with a White House that is so open and often lied to the American people, by the way, including Scott Pruitt, who is the first thing tonight, the second thing, the next one is very good. (
Hayes: first thing tonight, EPA director Scott Pruitt has been involved in so many scandals in the past year, at least so far he has escaped all the scandals, we are far from asking the usual questions, such as whether he is corrupt or whether he is fit to run the EPA or whether he should be fired.
No, now we just look at him in awe and wonder how far he can go.
It\'s like watching Phelps win a medal, except that Pruitt is at the Swamp Olympics.
You\'ll remember Scott Pruitt drinking hot water from a $50-night apartment rented by a lobbyists in Washington. C.
People who had business before the EPA
Now we know he used to buy a house with a lobbyists.
Luxury homes in the city of orrama are registered with a shell company owned by Pruitt, a state senator at the time of purchase and a lobbyists, Justin Whitefield and four other colleagues
According to the New York Times, Whitefield, a registered lobbyists, is pushing to change the state\'s workers\' compensation rules and the rules that Pruitt advocates in the legislature.
It was the best part, so he bought it with a lobbyists.
They bought the house at a big discount from another lobbyists who worked for a telecom company that had a business in front of the Kremlin Parliament.
But Scott Pruitt won\'t win the swamp Olympics because of his own suspicious transactions, and no, he has to beat his competitors too.
How he did it in 60 seconds. (
Hayes: So Scott Pruitt\'s team is trying to distract the EPA director from many of the violations by accusing other scandals
Members of the president\'s cabinet.
Today, Michael Abd, a member of the Prut news team (ph)
, Has been talking about the negative story of the leak from Interior Minister Ryan Zinke\'s staff, with the aim of keeping Pruitt away from the heat.
However, when the reporter started calling on these statements, the internal staff was able to find out that this was Abud (ph)
Behind the story, a complaint was filed with the White House personnel department.
You remember that particular office mentioned in a Washington Post report earlier this year that described po as something different from frat house.
But since then they seem to pull it together.
They responded strongly internally to the complaint against Prut\'s assistant and even asked if they were able to fire him.
But this is the only power that Pruitt has.
Now, we don\'t know how much Prut knows about the whole plot, but a White House official who knows about the incident summed it up very well, quote, \"I would never be surprised by what Scott Pruitt did. ”(
Start Video Editing)
Giuliani: The US president, who is ready to negotiate is probably one of our most historic agreements since we opened up to China.
Unidentified male: Nick Pine and (inaudible).
Giuliani: Yes, we got Kim Jong Un.
The United Nations released three prisoners today.
I have to go there, Jay Secolo and--
We have to go there and prepare this stupid testimony for him? (END VIDEO CLIP)
Hayes: Rudy Gilani is not a member of the government.
He has no security clearance, just a private lawyer for the president.
However, this morning he made a major foreign policy statement on Trump\'s television on the issue of life and death, almost on the sidelines, telling the world that it is clear that North Korea plans to release three US prisoners today.
The White House said they could not confirm the validity of what Giuliani said.
I\'m now adding a pre in shape-
Trump\'s geopolitics, Ben Rhodes, former deputy security advisor to national strategic communications, is the president\'s right-wing figure.
Take the lead in foreign policy.
Given the news that these hostages or prisoners may be released, what do you think of the president\'s attitude towards South Korea at this time?
Ben Rhodes, former deputy national security adviser: Well, I mean, Chris, it\'s hard to say.
First of all, part of the confusion now is that he is at the beginning of negotiations with North Korea and is not really with them.
However, he is tearing up the deal with Iran, or threatening to say that it has imposed restrictions on Iran\'s nuclear program and has prevented them from acquiring nuclear weapons.
So, while he started negotiations with North Korea, he threatened to repeal an agreement that actually fulfilled the agreement he was trying to reach with Iran, which would undermine our credibility.
Frankly, it also confuses me-in my eight years at the White House, we will not outsource to some outside legal teams to negotiate on issues such as prisoners, even introduce these types of things to them.
This is a good question, how can he know this if Rudy Giuliani does not have a security clearance.
Hayes: What do you think is the reason why there seems to be contradictions and practices between North Korea and Iran?
Rhodes: Well, I mean, a simple fact is, you know, Trump doesn\'t make it clear what the successful deal with North Korea is.
They promised a nuclear-free regime.
In the past, they did so with Bush through the Obama administration.
So it\'s not new.
Of course, we hope to succeed.
This is certainly better than conflict.
However, there is no scope for when they will achieve a nuclear-free, check what will be.
Chris, I think what you can learn from this is that he is the opposite of anything Barack Obama has done, and Barack Obama has negotiated the Iran nuclear deal with several other countries.
This has very strict restrictions on Iran\'s nuclear program, and there is an inspection system to prevent them from cheating.
However, he is prepared to abandon this while celebrating his possible negotiations with KIM JONG-UN --
And suggested that he should receive the Nobel Peace Prize, and in fact we don\'t even know what the agreement will look like.
Hayes: You know, Benjamin Netanya of Israel, Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia, and the UAE are also lobbying him hard.
The three countries especially hate the Iran deal.
They hate it, hate it, hate it.
They will tell anyone they hate.
They hate you a bit because they think you\'re part of it. No, they do.
Rhodes: I know.
Hayes: they hate you and the people they hire hate you.
People who see them hate you-why are they so annoying?
Rhodes: Well, I mean, Chris, all I can really get from this is the Iran deal that prevents Iran from getting nuclear weapons.
This is not a broad settlement with Iran, and it specifically concerns the fact that we want to prevent them from acquiring nuclear weapons.
What I get from this is what they really want is the conflict with Iran, the escalation of the conflict with Iran, and the potential regime change with Iran.
That\'s why it\'s so dangerous.
There is no reason to contribute to the crisis with the Iranians.
May 12 is the deadline to extend sanctions exemptions, which allows us to stay in the agreement.
Trump has done this twice, and Iran has complied with the agreement despite what Bibi Netanyahu said.
The fact is, if we do withdraw from the agreement, there is a possibility of confrontation with Iran, and these governments may want confrontation between the United States and Iran.
They want conflict between the United States and Iran.
Frankly speaking, it is not in our interest to go to war again in the Middle East, especially in important countries like Iran, and frankly, this war may be much more complicated than our war in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So I think these countries are very concerned about the escalation of confrontation with Iran.
But I think it is not in the interest of the United States to lift these restrictions on Iran\'s nuclear program and risk this confrontation.
Okay, Ben Rhodes, thank you for taking the time out tonight.
Thank you, Chris.
Hayes: Let\'s look at the relationship between the White House and lying.
Sarah Huckabee Sanders was scheduled to be on site today.
Her next response. (
Start Video Editing)
Unidentified male: You said on March 7 that the president was not aware of any remuneration and he denied all of these charges.
Were you lying to us or in the dark?
White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders: The president denies and continues to deny the underlying claims.
Again I gave my best information at the time and I will take you back to what you mentioned yourself a few minutes ago about . . . . . . Comments from the timeline of unidentified men: This statement mentions reimbursement and payment.
Sanders: Again, I have provided you with the best information I have. (END VIDEO CLIP)
Hayes: Sarah Huckabee Sanders cheated the American people today and was caught on the spot.
But, of course, this is comparable to the course.
No matter how trivial the issue is, anything from the White House, especially from the president, cannot be considered true.
Former Democratic Senator Barbara Bokser of California is here to help me understand the price of this constant deception;
Former Republican congressman Mitch Edwards from Thunder
Mitch, am I crazy to think that there is some degree of deception here, in a way different from other governments, other politicians?
Former Republican congressman Mitch Edwards: I have never seen such a thing before.
But I mean, Donald Trump, who is still the New York developer role, is building momentum.
He lied, you know. no one checked.
You know, you can do that when you build a building in New York City.
You know, but Barbara knows, you know, when you\'re in Congress, of course, when you\'re in the White House, people write stories every time you say something, they checked whether it was true.
He just didn\'t understand that he didn\'t get so much.
Hayes: Senator Boxer, don\'t he understand? Or did he just pay for it? SEN.
California: I don\'t think Donald Trump knows what he said from day to day.
If this is an incredible situation, I think the New York Times is actually looking at all the presidents, and yes, they all lie from time to time, in fact, they point out that Donald Trump has lied more than 2,000 times.
Look at the other presidents, Republicans, Democrats, 85, 95.
This is incredible.
I felt sorry for Sarah Huckabee Sanders because maybe he told her one thing and she went out and said something else the next day.
But, you see, she has to decide if she wants to do that.
All she said was to talk to the president\'s lawyer and to Giuliani.
When Rudy Giuliani said the Justice Department acted like a storm soldier, why didn\'t she stand up and apologize, saying he actually compared the country to Nazi Germany.
I was stunned by a guy who pulled us together after 9/11.
This is a case of illness.
Hayes: You know, even if it\'s a trivial matter, Mitch, I\'m a little fascinated by the doctor\'s situation, and Ronnie Jackson came out to give a glowing description of the president\'s health.
The president\'s wonderful description of his health.
Bornstein, as we know now, this letter was dictated by the president, and it was very good and very healthy.
I think you have to assume-I don\'t know, how do you think the White House has to assume they \'ve been lying?
EDWARDSS: Well, you know, everyone who works for him knows that you have to lie in order to make him happy.
No matter what story he is telling now, you must do it.
Chris and Barbara mentioned the issue and, you know, he knows the foundation he has-he has to keep his foundation happy and they don\'t care.
They either believe everything he says or don\'t care.
You know, they\'re with him no matter what.
So he can get away with it.
The problem he\'s going to have-I mean, I watched the movie and I saw Victoria nervous here, in you know if the president did, there is nothing wrong with what he will try to do for Richard Nixon.
It doesn\'t work either.
He\'s digging deeper and deeper, you know.
It\'s all from his own mouth.
Hayes: You used to work with someone-yes, please go ahead. BOXER: Sorry.
I was going to say he was right.
We know that no one is above the law.
We knew it in Congress.
If you break the moral rules, you end up in trouble.
We know that when you become president, there is free media throughout the country watching what you do, and you know, you have to walk.
This man, Mickey, is right at this point, and he is never used to telling the truth in business.
We know that he never paid the bill for the person he worked.
To be frank, his attitude is more like a mob than managing the government.
Like a criminal enterprise.
But the point is that Miller is handling the case.
Mueller knows the truth.
So, whether we know the truth or not, I believe Mueller knows the truth and there are many commodities in this area.
It\'s very close to here.
Hayes: I want you two to answer a question in their respective political careers, I started with you, Mitch, have you ever worked with the people you serve, or are there people like this that you just can\'t believe any of the words they say?
I am a Republican and when I was in the house the Democrats took full control of me and we often stood on the opposite side, but I never doubted that they were honest. HAYES: Really?
Did you not meet such a person?
Edwards: I haven\'t met anyone like that.
They are people who live in the public spotlight.
They understand that what they say will be challenged and people will look at what they say and check it out.
No, I can\'t think of an example where I serve with anyone on either side and they are so casual about the facts.
What about you, senator?
Boxer: Well, when you\'re working in Congress, by the way, you\'re trying to get things done, and that\'s absolutely right, and for the American people, someone looks into your eyes, they said I was with you.
Can you bring it to the bank? HAYES: Really?
Maybe they have other problems in life, I don\'t know.
But I can tell you that your words are your bond at work.
If you cheat someone or lie to someone, you will never do anything.
It just doesn\'t work.
Hayes: Well, it\'s interesting, not necessarily the character of these people. what you\'re saying is that the environment you\'re in is necessary, people in order to get the job done and people like the president have to have a certain level of trust who didn\'t come through this, and as Mickey said, he came to the fore in the New York real estate world, the model he adapted to is very different.
Barbara Boxer and Mickey Edwards, it\'s always great for you both to be together. Thank you.
Thank you, Chris.
Boxing: Thank you.
Hayes: I didn\'t write that copy on a night like tonight when we had so many great guests and charming interviews, I would call my own interview charming, guest
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It\'s here tonight.
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Good evening, Rachel.
This is a report card in a hurry.
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